Hello,

I wanted to ask about starting probiotics while still taking Asacol. I was just diagnosed with ulcerative colitis 4 months ago and like many other people steroids seem to be the only drugs that make me feel better. I have to say that I don't know how people survive for years with these diseases, I was told ulcerative colitis was less serious than Chron's but I feel like I've been through hell and back in these past few months. I feel very fortunate to have found Jini's book on the internet, I received it a few days ago and I'm already seeing good results just by changing my diet. I am anxiously waiting for my shipment of probiotics which I should receive any day.

Another question, I had to order the capsules for the Digesta-Lac because they don't have the non-dairy in powder, am I going to have to break the tablets for the powder?

Thank you so much for all your work Jini, I will forever be grateful!

Hi, Alex.

First, I want to sympathize regarding the severity of these diseases. It's true: it's hard to have much of a life when your biggest concern is not being further than a minute away from a bathroom!

That's wonderful that you're already beginning to see some relief by changing your diet. I remember finding a measure of relief by following the Reduce Diarrhea healing diet before I went on the IBD Remission Diet and just feeling so good inside that my instincts were right about Jini's book. (I read Chapter One of LTYG online and then bought it.)

Now, I'm going to answer one of your questions and I'm going to ask Jini to weigh in on the other.

Regarding the Digesta-Lac capsules, if you are having more than three bowel movements per day, you should definitely open the capsules and mix them with some room-temp spring or filtered water. If you're having more than three bowel movements per day and don't open the capsules, there may not be sufficient transit time in the gut to process the capsule coating and release the probiotics, allowing them to colonize throughout the GI tract. Also remember to take the probiotics on an empty stomach and in isolation (not with the aloe vera juice, MucosaHeal, etc.).

I believe Asacol affects the pH of the colon and this may have some effect on successful probiotic colonization, but as I said, I'm going to ask Jini to comment on this one.

I wish you all the best on your healing journey and don't hesitate to come back if more questions come up.

Nicole

Thank you so much for the quick response Nicole . This helps out alot. Although I have Jini's book already my reading has been slower than I would like since I work full time and I have a 31/2 yr old and an 8 month old. So between that and the fatigue of this condition I'm advancing slowly but I sure want to start on the probiotics as soon as I receive them.

I would appreciate any tips you might have for a new person venturing into this natural healing process. Do you know how open GI doctors are to this type of healing? I know we can't speak for all of them but for the most part do they support this? I have an appointent with a new doctor on the 29th and I wasn't sure how to approach this with him.

Thanks for your help and I hope to hear back from you and Jini soon.

Hi, Alex.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I might be wrong, but if any of what I say resonates at all with you, you'll know that here is something to explore on your healing journey.

You mention working full-time and having two young children. If you read my bio on the announcement Jini made on the forum, you'll already know that I began working a responsible full-time position with a very demanding commute when my youngest was a year old. I worked at that job for five years. So I can sympathize with the demands this places on a person....

Now my thoughts are basically about conflicting realities.

On the one hand, if we have the job and the children (but especially the children, of course), these things require our time, care and attention. On the other hand, if we wear ourselves out attending to these responsibilities, we leave little or no energy available for healing ourselves. So some sort of balance has to be struck.

In my experience, the greatest obstacles to achieving this balance reside in ourselves and not in our circumstances. If we can free ourselves of any mental blocks we might have, we can usually find a way to work with circumstances.

For instance, I had to learn to ask for help and respect my limitations, particularly when I was in the earlier stages of recovering. I wouldn't judge any other parent by these standards, but in my mind, judging MYSELF, there were two kinds of mothering: perfect and bad, or at the very least, lacking. I particularly saw things this way because I am a stay-at-home mother, so motherhood to me is also my vocation, of sorts.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Was I ever, even in the best of physical health, going to be able to achieve perfection in motherhood? Where did I learn these standards, that in my mind, constituted motherly perfection? Were any of these expectations coming from my children or were they all or mostly mine? Could I learn to accept myself as a good mother if I also made room for taking care of myself? Logically, I knew that being a good mother didn't mean taking care of my children to the exclusion of taking care of myself, but emotionally, it was different. (Perfection definitely meant 24/7 dedication to caretaking, for one thing!)

Of course, I'm not suggesting that it would ever be excusable to neglect our children; I'm talking about balance, which is going to be a little different for all of us. But again, if any of this resonates with you, you'll benefit from exploring what your own mental blocks may be. My favorite tool for unblocking beliefs and resultant behavior patterns that are emotionally-based rather than logical is EFT. You can download a free manual at www.emofree.com and Gary Craig, EFT's founder, also has a wonderful CD set about using EFT with serious diseases.

Finding a supportive doctor may take some searching. To be honest, I'm still searching for a doctor who will support me in how I want to treat myself. In a way, it helps to see things from their standpoint. Think back to what I just wrote about beliefs. Well, doctors are people just like us....subject to the same limiting tendencies. Where are their beliefs formed? Read Carolyn Dean's posts on the discussion thread titled "The Cause of Dis-ease" on the main discussion to get a doctor's perspective on this. (Dr. Dean is both a Medical Doctor and a Naturopathic Doctor.)

So when we want to pursue holistic healing, they may discourage us from doing so with all sincerity and good intent....it simply may not be within the realm of their experience and/or part of their belief system.

However, at the very least, you need a doctor who expresses the belief that YOU, not they, have the native right to decide what treatment you're going to pursue. You can find this out by interviewing them with "what if..." questions. For instance, "What if my condition worsens and I still refuse drugs or surgery? How are you going to handle that?" Questions like that will give you a sense of what kind of person the doctor is....are they comfortable being in a purely advisory capacity or are they the kind of person who wants to be the captain of the ship?

One other tip is to keep in mind what Jini says about the winding and/or up-and-down nature of naturalistic healing. For comfort and reassurance, when your symptoms may take a down-turn, re-read pages 34-37 or better yet, the entirety of Chapter One, of Listen to Your Gut.

My instinct as far as taking probiotics simultaneously with Asacol is that there's no reason not to take them but that your results with them will probably be improved once you've weaned from the Asacol (assuming that's what you want to do). However, see what Jini has to say. If her opinion differs from mine, I'd definitely go with hers.

I hope this is of some help.

Nicole

I can certainly understand your perspective and what you're saying. I can tell you that I have a very supportive group of co-workers and family. My mom is of great help and my husband (even though it wasn't always like this) once he realized the severity of what we were dealing with has been very helpful and you're right sometimes I find myself as my worst enemy, I start feeling remotely better and I immediately over do things, but I'm learning. I started a Yoga class recently and I'm learning to let everyone know when I run out of energy. I can't tell you that I've got this mastered but I'm working on it. I'm taking this disease very seriously and I'm determined to have somewhat of a normal life again someday.

The big reason I started to look for natural ways of healing is that I was getting, ingesting and paying (alot!!) for drugs that weren't working. Lucky for me I have an internet fanatic husband and that's how I started reading about people with this disease and how they go for years without finding relief, and I decided I did not want to be one of them. I don't care how good the people are around you this illness is no way to live for anyone. People probably don't realize just how much it takes out of you.

Anyway, thanks for your advice and help it feels good to talk to someone who knows exactly what you're going through.

Happy Holidays to you and yours!

You sound like you're off to a great start, Alex. It definitely is possible to have a much more normal life again. I did the same thing....start feeling a bit better and immediately overdo things. Keep listening to what your body is asking for and over time, I'm confident that you'll see things improve more and more, as I have.

I actually had PIZZA yesterday with my family, with no ill effects. Now, pizza will never again be a staple in my diet, as it was in the past. But it was so nice to know that I've improved enough to have it as a once-in-awhile treat.

One afterthought, just mentioning incidentally as a tip. Have you already come across any information about painkillers? The common over-the-counter painkillers, particularly aspirin and NSAIDS like ibuprofen, are hard on the gut. If you aren't already, it's a good idea to avoid them pretty strictly.

Nicole

Hi Alex,

Sorry it's taken me such a long time to get here - Nicole did notify me right away, but the Christmas holidays were a tad crazy at our house!

I talked to my brother, who's an MD, and he said that Asacol is just a modified version of ASA drugs like Salazopyrin, therefore, it does indeed alter the pH of the gut, making it too alkaline for good bacteria.

You can take the Asacol and probiotics, but take the probiotics 2 hours after the Asacol. And know that you'll experience a reduced healing effect because the probiotics cannot adhere nor colonize effectlively, due to the effects of Asacol.

However, as your condition gradually improves, that should give you the security to wean off the Asacol.

all the best,
Jini

I am AMAZED!

I have had UC for 12 years. Been on ASACOL (and others) for around 10. Just recently "saw the light" about drugs not being the way to go.

I've been taking Natren probiotics for about 4 months and have only seen marginal improvement.... Now I know why! The silly "maintenance" drugs I've been taking are wrecking their environment.

Jini, thank you so much for your work.

Ed

Hi Ed,

You're welcome!

And the fact that these drugs "work" by disrupting the bacterial flora of the gut is just more evidence for the theory that these diseases have an infectious component.

If you add Jini's Wild Oregano Oil Protocol to your treatment, that will set you up to see even better results from your probiotics.

take care,
Jini

Hi Jini
Your brother who is an MD told you that asacol would alter the PH to become more alkaline.asacol is chemically 5-amino-2-hydroxybenzoic acid.Being an acid how can it make it more alkaline?The enteric coating of asacol was made to disolve in a PH of 7 which is neutral so it would release after the ileum and disperse in the colon.This is of concern for me because my daughter is presently on antibiotics as well as asacol.I also supplement her with VSL#3.
Morris

Hi, Morris.

I've e-mailed Jini about your question, which is an interesting one. I know she will reply to you at her earliest opportunity.

Thanks,
Nicole

Hi, Morris.

Just wanted to let you know that Jini did let me know that she e-mailed her brother to forward your question.

She's in an area where she doesn't have Internet access, so the earliest you'll hear back is 3/31.

Just wanted to let you know that it's "in the works".

Nicole

Hi All,

My brother (the MD) emailed me back and said:

"If I said alkaline it was an error. ASA drugs are cleaved mainly in the colon by bacteria to release an acidic compound (ASA) and the other byproduct (can't remember name). I do not know whether the amount of ASA released is large enough to have any effect on the gut pH."

So, big OOPS on that one. Sorry for misleading anyone.

However, when I went online to find out if there was any more information on Asacol and bacterial flora, I couldn't find anything. I will email Natren to see if they have any information since they have a huge reference library from publications all over the world and may be able to shed some light on this. Will post here again when I hear back from them.

In the meantime, my research did turn up some other rather interesting information, which people taking Asacol should be aware of:

1/ Perhaps this is why Asacol can cause bloody diarrhea as a "side effect":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treatment_ ... ve_colitis

"5-ASA is poorly-absorbed by the intestines, and hence provides topical relief within the intestine. It is therefore a non-systemic drug. 5-ASA is related to the systemic non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs), such as Aspirin and Ibuprofin, which tend to promote intestinal bleeding, and which should therefore be avoided by persons with ulcerative colitis.
The free radical induction theory, discussed above, proposes that 5-ASA is serving not just as an anti-inflammatory, but also as a free radical trap, destroying the hydroxyl and other radicals that may damage colonic epithelial barrier.[2]"


2/ This article shows that the pH of the bowel has to increase to greater than 7, but how much greater? And which bacteria are needed to cleave the drug, any bacteria?:

http://www.ajmc.com/Article.cfm?ID=2655

"The 5-ASA moiety is called mesalamine when it is given by itself. "Unprotected" mesalamine is completely absorbed in the upper gastrointestinal tract. Therefore, 2 oral preparations have been designed to "protect" mesalamine from absorption in the upper gastrointestinal tract and to deliver it to affected parts of the lower gastrointestinal tract. Mesalamine can be coated with an acrylic resin (Asacol). As the pH of the bowel increases to greater than 7, this form of the drug is released in the distal ileum and colon."


3/ This site provides patient feedback from those taking Asacol from anywhere from a few month to decades. You can see from this one posting (there were many dealing with kidney problems) that if you're taking it, you REALLY to regularly monitor kidney function. Hair loss was another common complaint:

http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.a ... ame=ASACOL

"I hear and know of more and more people taking Asacol who have had severe and deadly side effects, such as kidney failure. This person who had kidney failure now is on dialysis and will be getting a kidney transplant from a family member. My condition was not reported and I know that the person with kidney failure was not reported. I have known of someone whose liver started to fail, but thankfully revived before total failure occurred. I believe Asacol can be a very very deadly drug. I was on large doses at the time of my condition (16 tabs a day). I was origanally diagnosed with UC 20 years ago, but in the later years have also been diagnosed with Crohns disease. During this time I have had ups and downs with flair-ups. During my times of remission I do not take any medications. I try and eat a healthy diet free from sugar and preservative foods. I am a firm believer that these diseases can be helped considerably with diet if not cured."

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Okay, that's it for now, if anyone else can dig up anything interesting, please post it here.

Jini