I am desperate, I am an emergency nurse with ulcerative colitis, I was doing pretty good, when I was exposed to a severe case of bacterial mennigitis and had to take an antibiotic to prevent myself getting bcterial mennigitis. I now have severe diarrhea with bleeding and have tested positive for c-diff. Tried the flagyl, I am unable to take because of to many side affects. My Gastro does not have any other options for me, told me to stop the flagyl and see what will happens. I am thinking of starting the oil of oregano protocal. Do you think this will help me?
I had tried the oil of oregano back in November, but had increase mucus production, I can get the tabs in my area and was taking 2 tabs 3 times a day. Maybe I wasn't taking enough, I am thinking of taking the 2 tabs 5 times a day. I am feeling very desperate at this time.
Thanks,

Vickie

Hi, Vickie.

I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I haven't had it, but from what I've read, C. diff can be a pretty nasty infection.

You might really know this better than me, being a nurse, but from what I understand, the two antibiotics commonly used to treat C. diff are either Flagyl or Vancomycin. Since the Oil of Oregano contains compounds that are comparable in antimicrobial activity to Vancomycin, I think it is a good bet that it will help you.

Even if you need or want to stick to what's available locally, versus purchasing things over the Internet, check out the brands of oil of oregano that Jini carries in her online health food store, www.holistichealthshoppe.com. Try to get one of these brands, which she has researched for us. The source of the oil and how it is processed will affect its efficacy.

And of course, make sure to take the probiotics along with the oil of oregano, as recommended.

Beyond that, to the extent that you can follow it, I'd recommend a multi-pronged strategy.

First, check all of your supplements and medications, if any, for anything that can cause diarrhea as a side effect. This may require some research on your part, but it's important to do. You need to make sure that while you're trying to heal your diarrhea, you're not simultaneously taking something that can exacerbate it.

Second, review Jini's recommendations in the Reduce Diarrhea Diet. This won't necessarily work overnight, but just removing typical offenders like most dairy foods, citrus fruits and leafy vegetables should give you some relief and lay the foundation for further healing.

Third, consider supplementing with either L-glutamine or psyllium. L-glutamine is very healing for diarrhea. See Jini's recommendations for building up dosage under the heading Diarrhea in Chapter Two of LTYG.

Fourth, you need to address emotional factors. My mother-in-law has shared that whenever she finds herself in some particularly stressful situation, she feels the need for an urgent bowel movement. (My brother-in-law, her youngest son, was born with a serious heart defect and required multiple surgeries during his childhood, so you can imagine how many times she found herself in particularly stressful situations!) So if this can be true for someone with a healthy digestive system, imagine the influence it can have on someone whose digestive system is their genetic stress outlet.

Have you already learned how to do EFT? If not, you can download the free manual at www.emofree.com. You can use that initially to address the desperation you are feeling; ongoing, use it to help defuse the chronic stressors in your life.

Here are two links; in the first one, you will find some recent comments Jini has made about her own use of EFT. In the second, I share some of my experiences utilizing this therapy.

http://www.jinipatelthompson.com/bb2/vi ... .php?t=521

http://www.jinipatelthompson.com/bb2/vi ... .php?t=105

Fifth, healing is an intensive activity; your body needs rest to have the energy to put into healing. Ideally, take some time off work (if you aren't already). At the least, rest and relax whenever you are not working. Ask for help with any household tasks you normally perform. I know it's hard (because I've been there, too), but your body will take so very much longer to get better if it's not given sufficient rest.

Lastly, you say your diarrhea is severe, but this may mean different things to different people. At my sickest, I had diarrhea an average of twelve times a day, including having to get up at least twice a night for a potty run, every night. As you can imagine, after awhile of this, I felt more like a zombie than a person. If your situation is similar or worse, consider going on the IBD Remission Diet. You will almost certainly have liquid stools for the duration of the diet, but this easily absorbed food source should give your healing a real jumpstart. For many people, their healing journey will not end with the completion of the IBD Remission Diet, but it lays a strong foundation for additional healing. My own experience with it (I've followed it twice) has been extremely positive.

Let us know how things go or if you have any additional questions.

Hang in there....

Nicole

Thanks, Nicole

To be honest I haven't embraced EFT yet. I have been trying to heal my self with a little of this and a little of that but not the entire program completely. I have read the links and have agreed that I need to embrace EFT. Thanks for everything. I will let you know how I am doing. Actually I have had my self on very little protien mostly chicken and fish broth and water for bowel rest and I am climbing out of the hole. I started the oil of oregano today. But once again I have no trust with the reguar medicine. My Gastro knows that, I told him straight out that I was not happy that I needed to see him because he NEVER gives me any answers to make me better. But I was at the time desperate, I needed blood work because I was worried that I was losing to much blood at the time, thankfully that and decreased greatly. I work with him in the hospital enough that he knows if I stay away from him I do better. I have been doing mostly SCD for almost 2 years and have been doing OK, I just want to take the healing to the next step. He agrees that if diet works stay with it, he also has another nurse who is a patient of his who follows diet to control her chron's.

Thanks
Vickie

Hi, Vickie.

Yes, I followed the SC Diet for awhile, too.

Well, the good thing is that you can definitely stay compliant with the diet's tenets using the wild oregano oil and using L-glutamine. You're probably already familiar with it anyway, but I know there's a list of supplements people have researched on www.pecanbread.com that have no complex carbs of any kind; I'm quite sure you'll find L-glutamine on that, if you're interested in trying it.

As far as probiotics, if you want to strictly follow SCD, you'll only be able to take the acidophilus and L. bulgaricus. My own personal feeling while on SCD was that I saw no reason not to take the B. bifidum, as well, especially since it is my colon affected by Crohn's, not the rest of my digestive system and the colon is where the B. bifidum is active. I didn't agree with that particular SCD restriction, but of course, you will have to follow your own judgment on that.

But definitely take probiotics while you're following Jini's protocol. In the early stages of development, she and others tried it without probiotics and she reports that it worked much better in conjunction with them.

And of course, one of the nice things about EFT is that it's not going to make you non-compliant with ANY diet. No matter what regimen you follow, it can only help.

Don't forget, too, that you can largely follow Jini's dietary recommendations in conjunction with SCD.....just leave out the complex carbs. For instance, you can follow Jini's recommendations on the Reduce Diarrhea diet to keep fats to a minimum, abstain from legumes, cruciferous veggies and acidic foods and so on. As you improve, you can re-introduce these SCD-compliant foods back into your diet.

Just some ideas.....

Take care.

Nicole

Vicki and Nicole:

I read Vicki's post with interest. I have ulcerative colitis and in Nov became ill with a stomach bug which resulted in an extended flare. In Jan I embarked on a six week elemental diet, at the same time following the oreganol protocol. I transitioned back onto the "diarrhea diet" and have not been doing well. The same persistent frequency and urgency that I had prior to the diet continues. I upped my probiotic usage (1 tsp 3x/day) and moved onto "strong support" with Mucosaheal, was using L-glutamide/aloe etc. I felt like I was doing everything but still continued to spin my wheels. Two weeks ago things reached a point where the urgency was so severe that I went back onto shakes exclusively. Long story short, a internal med Dr I respect recommended another GI Dr. I saw him and it was the same old routine, so I thought...steroids, drugs etc. He was strongly suggesting on a colonoscopy. I didn't resist..I've been sensing a need to have a colonoscopy done. (gut instinct?) Thanks to the elemental diet I didn't need to do the cleansing and the scope revealed severe psuedomembranous colitis throughout my entire colon. This is most commonly caused by antibiotic usuage and c-diff. I have not used antibiotics in over two years. I am puzzled, to say the least. At this point with the severity of the infection I've agreed to Vancomycin. I agreed to this because one, at this point, I've been on oil of oreganol for over 4 months (30-50 drops a day) and two, I feel that this issue with the psuedomembranous colitis needs to be given attention first before any other healing will occur. Going on the Vancomyacin is a huge hurdle for me, but I've been able to come to a place of peace with this decision. The cost of Absorb pales in comparison to Vancomycin. What a jolt. The Dr. is recommending staying with the Elemental diet and probiotics. I've stopped the oil of oregano, obviously and am not doing the other things at this point...I need to take things slowly and decide what to add back and when. Any thoughts.

D. Fisher,
I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. But reading your post I am very worried, about myself, I thought the oil of oregano would help me, but now I am not sure. I just bought the oil of oregano liquid form, I read an article about enteric coated oil of oregano for bowel infections. Maybe I should get some of that, I am very worried about the progression of this disorder. Are you doing better on the Vanco?

Vickie

Hi, D.

Yes, I agree with you. For you to see more healing, you definitely need to address the infection.

Regarding your feelings about the Vancomycin, a treatment that you feel at peace about is far more likely to work well than one about which you have many doubts/reservations in my opinion, so that it to the positive. Still, an awful lot of people have increased bowel symptoms following antibiotics, so I want to talk about ways that maybe you can minimize or possibly even eliminate that.

By the way, sounds like your doc is a supportive one. If you continue to feel like you have a good experience with him, would you post his name on the website? You'll find a link on the home page.

I know it might sound like a waste while you're taking a super-powerful antibiotic, but I would seriously consider taking really large doses of the probiotics while you are on the Vancomycin and for awhile afterwards. Also, unless the idea makes you uncomfortable, seriously consider performing a probiotic retention enema after you finish the course of Vancomycin.

Here's a quote from an earlier thread about probiotics:

As Nicole indicated, Jini recommends that one must take 7-10 billion of each strain per day to do any good... and her actual recommendation is to take 12 billion of each per day.

In her book, Natasha recommends building up 6 billion x 3/day for UC. (18 billion of each).

I would lean toward Natasha's recommendations while you are taking the Vancomycin and for a period of time afterwards (let your symptoms be your guide) and then drop down to Jini's recommendation.

Also, remember that our immune systems can also make or break our getting well, medicines of any type aside. So you want to do everything you can to support your own immune function, both while you're taking the Vancomycin and afterwards. Jini discusses immune strengtheners/balancers on pages 94-98 of LTYG. Consider utilizing one or more of these both while you're taking the Vancomycin and afterwards.

Also check out the following link about susceptibility to infection, which raises some thought-provoking points:

http://www.jinipatelthompson.com/bb2/viewtopic.php?t=86

I'm also going to contact Jini to ask her to check out this discussion thread and see if there's anything else she'd like to add.

Let us know how you make out.

Nicole

Hi, Vickie.

I can certainly understand your feeling scared!

When I've gone through scary times with Crohn's (and I've had a few that left me feeling shaky with fear), here is the thing that has helped me the most.

Take some time out.

I'm actually quoting myself from an earlier post here: Often, there'll be several conflicting feelings when you're making a decision like this. However, my experience has been that if you can find a time and place where you can be very quiet and still in yourself, you can get down to bedrock, so to speak. What's underneath all the swirling, tangled feelings near the surface? At least for me, that's invariably been a good source of guidance....it hasn't gotten me into "trouble" yet.

And to quote Jini:

The bottom line is that each of us can recognize 'truth' when we hear/read it. By that I mean, what's true and applicable and helpful to us at THIS TIME. And if you allow yourself to always stay connected to your gut, then your body can direct you to what it needs (and this can certainly change throughout our lives), when it needs it.

This is not to minimize your dilemma, which is very real, but hopefully, to give you some comfort and reassurance, whatever treatments you decide to pursue.

I really like something that D. said in her post. (Actually, I'm making an assumption here; D. might be a man.) But in any case, about feeling at peace with his or her decision regarding the Vancomycin. I think that is a very important factor that is more than likely to influence the treatment outcome.

I can tell you that the oil of oregano has worked wonders for me, in conjunction with everything else I've done. That's an important point; there are no magic bullets in holistic healing. Jini has had many consultation clients who have been helped by it, as well.

But you're the important one in deciding what to do. Review the different options. Go inside yourself. Which one do you feel peaceful about, or at least most at peace? Go with that one and do everything else that you can at the same time to support your body's own natural healing ability.

Here's one more quote about this to consider, from Jini:

My own personal feeling is that I'm becoming more and more convinced that all IBD has an infectious component - whether it is the originating event or not, I can't say.

Nevertheless, the LTYG program is based upon healing or addressing ALL of the possible and/or contributing factors. Therefore, I advocate both the Wild Oregano Oil Protocol and high dose probiotics ongoing - to address the infectious component. Then I recommend immune system strenghteners/balancers to address the immune system component. Then I recommend specific supplements to heal and restore the intestinal wall and mucosal lining. Then I recommend people get hormone testing and balance their endocrine system (knocked out of whack by both drugs used and long-term illness), etc. etc.

And as Nicole has pointed out numerous times in her postings, each of us will get a 'feel' (listen to your gut!) for which areas we particularly need to focus on and at what times.

Some of us are okay to just 'feel' our way through our Healing Journey. And others need hard evidence to go on - such as lab test results. Hey, it's all good. And all paths lead to Rome!

take care,
Jini

I hope that some or all of these thoughts will be helpful to you and I really do sympathize.

Sincerely,

Nicole

Everything that's been written here by Nicole is great and I fully endorse her postings. One more thing I'd like to add:

There's a thought/belief paradigm at work here that can be very dangerous and it goes like this:

"Okay, I've taken the drug, herb, supplement, etc. So now I'm good. I'm cured. I'm fine."

We must break out of this paradigm if we are to have any success at long-term health.

Whether you take Wild Oregano or Vancomycin or Flagyl, when the course/dosage is over, you are NOT finished. If you do not immediately do everything necessary to establish a healthy, protective gut environment, the infection will recur. Or, equally common, you will contract another opportunistic infection.

Even your GI can confirm this pattern. Ask him/her how many subsequent courses of Cipro, Flagyl, Vancomycin their average patient undertakes after the first one?

So, you cannot approach this in bits and pieces and expect it to work. 'Bits and pieces' and 'gradually' work well for getting comfortable and fluent with a new protocol or supplement regime. But if you want to see results, you have to do everything, completely.

So, for the posts here, with severe gut infection, this means (see revised "Listen To Your Gut" for detailed instructions on implementation of all of these things):

1) Jini's Wild Oregano Oil Protocol - 10 drops, 5 times/day
2) Jini's Probiotic Retention Enema
3) High dose oral probiotic supplementation
4) Follow applicable Healing Diet
5) Balance immune system
6) Balance endocrine system
7) Address emotional & lifestyle factors creating ill health

And if the infection begins to recur, then you cycle back to point 1) and begin again. Or, you may find you need to stay on an alternating combination of points 1, 2 and 3 for up to 2-3 years (whilst implementing the other points) to completely overcome infection and establish a good flora.

Remember, until you've established a strong, protective gut environment, infection will recur.

And don't forget, drugs and hospital environments (which incubate superbugs) have been producing stronger and more resistant strains of pathogens. So what worked 5 years ago, is no longer sufficient.

all the best,
Jini

Thanks for your post Jini,
As a nurse I do know how dangerous c-diff can be, it is one of the most difficult to treat infections and people have repeat bouts of the infection. Because of that knowledge I know that this will be difficult which makes me worried. With following the diet of mostly broth and water with protien my belly doesn't feel too bad and I do not have a lot of stools. During the day I do not do to bad probably about 5 stools a day. But at night is when I have to most stools, up to 5 a night. As you can imagine I am more exhausted because I am up several times through the night which is not helping. If I could get the night time stools to decrease, increase my rest this will also help.

Vickie

Thank you Jini and Nicole for your imput. By the way, the pronoun she is correct. Vickie, currently I feel okay on the Vancomyocin and at day six, I've seen a decrease in my frequency. I too had frequent nightly trips to the bathroom. That has decreased the past two nights.

I also understand your difficulty and know the struggle in deciding what to do with the whole c-diff diagnosis. I was prepared to fight ulcerative colitis without drugs but when I understood the extent of my c-diff infection on top of the uc...I was unprepared emotionally and educationally to make a choice. It was an enormous hurdle for me to even step back into the medical arena, then let alone face something like Vancomyocin. I had some time to read and think and obviously decided this was a necessary choice for me at this point. I need to continue to focus my energy on the good that can be accomplished. If I think or read to much about c-diff or vancomycin and their side affects I can get really overwhelmed...instead I'm choosing focus on steps I can take to counteract the seriousness of both in my body. I'm grateful for the info I do have to work towards healing. It really is a journey.

I do not have the current edition of LTYG so I don't have the new info about the probiotic retention enema. I am considering "winging it" with amounts of water/probiotics ratio and frequency. I am currently drinking 1tsp 3/day of the Natren trinity powder and will increase that to 1 1/2 tsp 3/day but really do want to get it's benefits from both ends!

Hi, D. and Vickie.

Jini usually recommends doing the probiotic retention enema once per month until symptoms resolve, as well as ongoing oral supplementation.

However, I wouldn't hesitate to do it more often, if you feel comfortable doing so and intuitively feel that it would be helpful.

D., I did send you a message with instructions on how to do the enema; let me know if you don't receive it.

I'm not convinced that the following will help all by itself. My own experience bears out what Jini says that it is combining everything consistently that brings the best results. However, I think that the following will complement other therapies to combat infection and promote being able to get a restful night's sleep.

Try using EFT in conjunction with an affirmation. Decide what you'd like to be true, state it as if it is already true in the present tense and repeat your affirmation in front of a mirror as you tap on the EFT points. For example, for months, every night before I went to bed, I went through a round or two of EFT while saying, (at each tapping point), "My colon allows me to sleep for eight hours without interruption." I started out saying, "My colon allows me to sleep until morning without interruption," but in high summer, morning light came before five o'clock a.m., so I had to modify my statement, because my body took me at my word and woke me up as soon as it became light!

Encouragingly,

Nicole

Very true Nicole, and also taking a high dose of probiotics before bed often helps people get through the night better.

Keep in mind that diarrhea and vomiting are the body's principle mechanisms of ridding itself of gut pathogens, so unless you're doing something else that's as or more effective, the body will keep preserving your health the best way it can - and this is a POSITIVE thing.

When I've had a bacterial stomach flu, I sip probiotics pretty much non-stop until vomiting stops. It's okay to keep vomiting the probiotics, because eventually the tide turns and you get enough good bacteria in there to overwhelm the bad. It takes a fraction of the time to recover than people who just try to stay hydrated and wait it out.

So, same thing with an intestinal infection. Whether you use Vancomycin or Wild Oregano, the heavier you go with the probiotics, the better. And with colonic infections, the absolute BEST way to flood the colon with probiotics is with repeated Probiotic Retention Enemas.

take care,
Jini

I checked with Natren as to the recommendation for the maximum amount of probiotics they would recommend with c-diff/uc. In the email reply from Natren an assistant recommended continuing with the 1 tsp 3xday of the three powders and adding a capsule every other day of the Healthy Trinity until I can progress to taking it every day. Apparently they feel this will provide a fuller spectrum of coverage. I have not had an opportunity to check the ingredients of Healthy Trinity to see if the strains of probiotics are different than the three powders. In an earlier reference on this thread as to doses of probiotic there was a recommendation quoted from Natasha's book to take 18 billion of each ...which comes to 1 1/2 tsp each 3xday. Can anyone confirm this amount, I do not have her book and the company didn't confirm this. Do you see any benefit to adding a Healthy Trinity capsule at this point with severe diarrhea?

THANKS SO MUCH!

Hi, D.

Actually, that does make sense because the Healthy Trinity capsules are heavier on the Bifidum bacteria. The bifidobacterium is active in the colon and that's where your infection resides.

My only concern would be whether the transit time in your gut would be sufficient to completely break down the capsule, especially if you're still having several episodes of diarrhea a day.

You could basically follow the same principle but bypass the transit time issue by sticking with the powders but upping the dosage of the Bifido Factor. To get 20 billion cfu of the Bifido Factor (the amount in one dosage of Healthy Trinity), you would need to take 10 teaspoons of the powder. Wow, that's a lot!

You know what I'd do is contact Natren and ask them if you can open the capsules of Healthy Trinity before ingesting them. I assume you can, but I've always used the powders, not the capsules, so that's why I don't know exactly what the Healthy Trinity capsules look like. That might be your best bet, in addition to the probiotic retention enemas.

Nicole